Wednesday, 24 June 2009


I have been following with interest the comments made on the lightweight debate over on Shirley's Place.

Shirley decided to leave the discussion over at Andy's Place because it seemed principally directed at a comment made in the TGO Challenge Final Report and she wanted to discuss the more interesting topic of lightweight kit and safety. She wrote an excellent piece and some contributors added greatly to the discussion in the comments made on the post.

Then up pops a gentleman, going under the nick-name of "Mike fae Dundee". I invite you now to pop over to the discussion and take a look at his third comment.

I thought the dinosaurs were extinct - but apparently not. We have a red in tooth and claw, real, alive here and now, dinosaur in this gentleman. Try it for yourself: After reading his third comment, Google "Mike fae Dundee" and see what you think!

I have posted this in my blog because I didn't want to clutter up Shirl's place with this sort of discussion.


  1. I love it! No, I absolutely adore it! These Class War Re-Enactment chaps are simply spiffing!

    As I said on Shirl's site - whilst sipping a tolerable claret and fondling my terriers - "if my case wasn't so heavy - 12kg including three day's food and various unmentionable luxuries - why, I'd rest it right now"

    Toddle-pip, old chum. Tickety-boo for the Forcan Ridge?

  2. Mike has been around long enough to know what you write is public on a blog and he can argue his case about it. I have ignored it. His points before made a good topic and Shirley has challenged the points and it has been interesting debating with her. It is a shame as it is a good post she did and the chat has been fantastic.

  3. Humph: "Class War Re-Enactment chaps" - Wonderfully put - they rehearse themselves so regularly that they almost believe their own twaddle.

    "fondling my terriers ..." - I think you should rephrase that...

    Hi Martin: I don't believe that "Mike fae Dundee" has a case he can possibly argue. He speaks a language that I find amazingly offensive.

  4. Leave it out, guv. HMP3 and I have a special understanding ...

  5. Hello Alan!

    Now get off that fence... *grin*

    Martin -- no harm done! I've very much enjoyed debating with you too. I was simply a little taken by surprise by what Mike wrote. As you point out, it might well be that there'd be a different kit weight profile on the Chally if more younger people went. I don't think it's a class issue, though :)

  6. Some folk have no sense of humour. :)

    Mike fae the Kremlin.

  7. Definitely not Shirley and it has been a pleasure. We had a good discussion side tracked. Alan a fair point made and he has no case but to answer to his comment and apologise. Take care.

  8. Dear Mango Terrier,

    Your picture is very pretty ♥ Would you like to be friends? I've only got a cat to play with here. It's not the same as having a real animal :-(

  9. I read some of the responses to the Challenge Report on various blogs and read the comments by Mike on Peewiglets Plog.

    All a bit of a storm in a 24oz Dutch Beer Can IMO.

  10. I think this post is well beneath you and your excellent blog.
    You may not agree with the comments made but to use your blog as a vehicle to "diss" another poster comes across as being vindictve.

  11. Steve,

    I think this post is well beneath you and your excellent blog.
    You may not agree with the comments made but to use your blog as a vehicle to "diss" another poster comes across as being vindictve.

    I think that's unfair, and possibly it arises out of a misunderstanding.

    Alan made it clear on my blog that he was posting his reaction to Mike's posting over here. He could have written the same thing over there, but he chose not to do that in case it led to an acrimonious exchange.

    If Alan had written what he wrote 'behind Mike's back', so to speak, then things would have been different. He didn't, though, and in fact Mike came over here and posted his own comment.

    Just my opinion.

  12. Mac & Steve seem to think I have slipped up a bit in pointing out what I consider to be an offensive posting by a blog commenter on another blog

    Steve thinks I have come across as 'vidictive'.

    To be honest, I don't enjoy being described as so but I am happy that I write about my beliefs. I care what people say and how they say it when commenting on blogs that are usually political free zones.

    Mike, in one sentence says.. "a lot of centrally heated middle-class folk have a different definition of comfort from other folk"

    In one sentence he manages to distance himself from the supposedly affluent, comfortable middle-class and by implicaton allies himself with the poor and the 'working class' who obviously lead a life of penury and unremitting discomfort.

    It's this airing of the 'Socialist Worker' mentality that has blighted our society for generations that has me leaping into print.

    "Middle Class" is being used in this sense as a derogatory term.

    You would have thought, within the modern political landscape, that terms like this being used in such a sneering fashion would be long dead and buried. Society has moved on and left these cliches behind.

    But here we are, in the here and now, on a walking blog, witnessing a prime expample of an attitude that should have been buried inside tons of concrete and dumped out at sea decades ago.

    It seems from subsequent posts on PW's blog that Mike regrets how he put his views.

    I am happy that Mike has now taken a slightly different stance and he's probably a great bloke. If we should ever bump into each other in the Fife Arms mid Challenge, with a mob of Dundonians or not, we should probably get on fine.

    Walkers generally do.

  13. "Society has moved on and left these cliches behind."

    Does that go for sneering comments from terrier fondling claret drinkers? Or are comments from the right sort of people funny?
    I usually get on with most folk, but maybe antiquated attitudes from others are designed to draw out a reaction?

    I'll say no more.

    Mike fae the socialist republic of Dundee. :)

  14. I feel such a fool. I don't get it. Is the offensive comment this one?

    "a lot of centrally heated middle-class folk have a different definition of comfort from other folk"

    And I've Googled "Mike fae Dundee" and can't see anything interesting there.

    Please explain somebody. I'm not sure if I'm middle class. I don't have central heating, so I'm not sure if I should be offended. It's all very confusing.

    John H

  15. Does that go for sneering comments from terrier fondling claret drinkers? Or are comments from the right sort of people funny?
    I usually get on with most folk, but maybe antiquated attitudes from others are designed to draw out a reaction?

    Ah, well. You said in the original discussion that you felt you could have phrased things differently, and that you'd been trying to be humorous. Looks like you were just trying to be nasty after all. Live and learn...

  16. Does that go for sneering comments from terrier fondling claret drinkers? Or are comments from the right sort of people funny?
    I usually get on with most folk, but maybe antiquated attitudes from others are designed to draw out a reaction?

    Mike: Humphrey has a fine sense of humour that you singularly fail grasp or display despite your 'smilies'. And Humphrey can more than look after himself on here, so I shall leave your death rattle for him to deal with.

    John (is that Mr Hesp?): Yes. Please read my earlier comment.

    You can check out some of the gentleman's views when leafing through that woeful Outdoors Magic place. (I know there are people that love the place - each to their own.)

  17. Alan's right about the gentleman from Dundee.

    Incidentally, his (the Dundonian's) level of sophistication is also shown by the laughable idea that 'middle class' people live in comfortable houses while the working class freeze in the slums.

    The coldest houses I've slept in were invariably middle class, not to mention the (lower) aristrocracy...

    Any time I've gone into a working class house (luckily my circle of friends crosses those barriers that the gentleman from Dundee is so keen on raising up among us), it has been overheated, with people in t-shirts...

    The image of the rough working class lad taking to the hills with no kit at all may have been true at the time of the Creag Dubh guys, but that kind of working class is long gone, even in Dundee (and I know whereof I speak, given that I live not far from there...)

    It was an absolutely puerile comment, but entirely in character.

    It's always a sad day when people spoil the fun of talking and thinking of the outdoors in this way, but there you go.

    Long may yer lum reek, Alan, and may the road rise to meet ya!

  18. Very interesting threads... not that I know much about lightweight, but I am available for restrained conversion!

    That Mick Dundee is like the Willow-Wren twittering his thin little song in the Piper at the Gates of Dawn!

    I’ve backpacked with people of all ages, who represent most sections of the community, including professors, lawyers, policemen and hairdressers, merchant seamen, fencers, (arris rails rather than épées), photographers and gas fitters, (you get it...) and I’ve never noticed any link between their job and their pack weight, except that some of those employed in manual labour would occasionally carry 50% more than I could lift!

    I’d bet that even if Challengers were provided with personal porters there would still be not much difference in the number, or identity of withdrawals :)

  19. Thank you for your supportive comments Fifer and Des - they are appreciated.

    Too often the internet and blogosphere is dominated by the noise and clatter of the thoughtless; who use the shorthand cliches that we are all expected to go along with, without looking at them for what they really are.

    Let's close this now and get on with real stuff.

  20. blimey, you lot are up in the boughs, aren't you?
    i'm very posh, and i can confirm we grew up in freezing conditions, are used to deprivation, and despise all forms of house heating. Mike Fae Dundee is not wrong when he says that people adjust to their environments and expectations. whatever falls below such 'expectations' will be uncomfortable. whatever is above, such as a downmat for a challenge race, will be seen as indulgent. the class war, however, is nasty and tasteless. get over it.

  21. Close this? What feeling uncomfortable about it then?

  22. Hello "Posh Totty" and the great uncouth others from Outdoors Tragic that seem to be crawling all over my blog.

    Personally, I have no axe to grind as I abandoned reading the inane ramblings from your back-room bar ages ago when I realised it had a mental age of less than my cat. I will let the congregation decide.

    All they need to do is nip over to your pathetic back-slapping forum to work out that you are a complete bunch of wasters. But of course, you know that already that's why your forum is dying - divorced as it is from real life.

    And - Just for Carl - No sweetie. I have never been more comfortable in my life.

    You don't cut it here, sunshine. This is my world and it is very real.

  23. Hmmm the link I posted in the last comment doesn't seem to have all been displayed - not being a techie genius, I don't know why, so sorry about that.

    Suffice it to say that the posters on the forum all post anonymously and seem to talk complete crap.

    I am frankly amazed that "Mike fae Dundee" raised it all up again: It's three sets to love, Mike, and you got the losers medal.

  24. uncouth?






    no. just pointing out that mike had a point. if you wish to degenerate into personal abuse, come over to OM, but we don't indulge in it elsewhere.

    you're being very rude, and it doesn't come across well.

  25. Hello 'Anonymous'

    "uncouth" - Yes - I think that's pretty close.

    "inane" - closer still.

    "crawling" - yes - it's taken a week for you to arrive here - that's crawling along in anyone's book.

    "backslapping... pathetic" - Actually it was 'pathetic back-slapping'

    "wasters" - you might have a point here - do you have a point of view that is worth wasting?

    If you think I am coming across as
    "rude" you should go back and re-read your appalling forum.

    I post under my real name - until you lot do the same, no-one will ever take you seriously, especially when you post foul, class ridden crap and pass it off as a joke.

  26. i apologise if this is the umptieth time this posts, but your server appears to be blocking me.


    now that's really nasty, Alan. I'm only 'anonymous' because that's the choice your website gives when i'm not a member.
    I am Posh Totty on another forum, although i don't know how you found that out from my first post.

    All i did was point out that Mike had a point - about people getting used to their own comfort zones - one man's THR is heaven, while to another anything less than a downmat9 is hell - and that has a lot to do with how much money you are prepared to spend, and the timing is whether you get to choose your own holiday times or not. that's not class war, it's just a fact of life. i'm very posh, but my job dictates the time i can take off, and i've not had two weeks in a row for over five years.

    calling me "uncouth", "inane", "crawling", "pathetic back-slapping", "waster", who doesn't have "a point of view that is worth wasting", is yes, as you put it - "coming across as

    i suggest you learn some manners yourself - they are nothing to do with which knife you use, but everything to do with having a little tolerance for other people's perspective.

  27. As a poster on OM I have of course noted the spat twixt here & some from there. I'm not much interested in said spat, but would like to add my tuppence worth just the same.
    Firstly, I've never posted on a blog before, and bear of little brain that I am, I don't have a clue about the options (Google account? What's that?), so I've chosen anonymous, but my real name is Ian Iles - for the record, Alan.
    Now, I see some sweeping comments about OM & the folk who post there, as if we are some homogenous whole. Substitute 'Black' or 'Jew' for OM & see how some posts here read. The odd thread on OM might not appeal to (what someone might term) middle class sensibilities (the so-called Windy thread for ex.), but to slag off the whole site & all who post there seems intolerant at best.
    The 'Windy thread' is not the forum. Think of it as a virtual pub. Now some folk might prefer to sip a Martini in the Clachaig's lounge, whilst others may prefer a pint of Fraoch in the bar, but I'm sure that on the hills we'd probably get on pretty well. Or maybe not. But my point is that the sweeping generalisations made here come down to ill-tempered slurs on others who have no idea this 'conversation' is happening, and said slurs by default include me. I'd love to hear the justification for those generalised slurs & attacks on OM posters, or maybe an apology. Should I hold my breath?

  28. Posh Totty said: i apologise if this is the umptieth time this posts, but your server appears to be blocking me.

    Non one had blocked you Posh - I had just gone to bed and all comments on here are moderated. (I don't recall though ever having blocked a comment that wasn't spam)

    I think you are missing the whole point of this thread - The issue of what people are used to in terms of comfort was being dealt with over at Peewiglet's blog. I was purely dealing with Mike fae Dundee's apparent class struggle comment.

    I didn't call you any of those things - read it again: I was describing the others on your Windy night thread - Go and re-reead the thread - I just have - and so I stand by what I wrote.

    I am incredibly tolerant - ask yourself if your friends on that thread at OM are too? Laughable really.

    I see that your take on it was as follows - I have cut and pasted what you wrote in such a balanced fair minded fashion: this is just for you Alan

    you're a narrow minded, prejudiced, self-absorbed, bigoted, defensive, rude, nasty-minded little pompous weevil of a man who doesn't deserve to have a cat. let alone an intelligent one. i hope you choke on your own phlegm. because one of these days you'll be so busy looking down your substantial nose at everyone else that you'll suffocate on the amount of gristle that dangles back.

    and believe me, i would not have resorted to being as abusive as you are, had you allowed me to post on your forum. tosspot.

    ooof, i feel better now.


    there. said it again. feel twice as better.

    Well Totty, I am glad you feel better now.

  29. Ian Iles: Welcome to the blog.

    Thanks for your comment. It seems to make me out as someone who is denigrating all OM posters - Honestly - I am not. If you re-read the comment I made I was specifically highlighting the Windy Night thread - and had pasted the link to that exact thread.

    I really don't care what people drink. I really don't care where they identify themselve in our society. That was why I had a go at Mike fae Dundee ijn the first place, because he patently did.

    If you have taken what I wrote as a slur, then I do indeed apologise - but I was in fact describing what goes on in that particular Windy Night thread on OM, not OM as a whole.

    Go and take a read of it. They should all be ashamed.

  30. "Don't cut it here" your probably right, sweetie

  31. Happy now Carl?
    That added great insight into the discussion, didn't it...


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